Because there's only one province and about 4 million muricans who even know the truth. Although I've never visited Cuba, my parents have gone several times, and have had many friends do the all inclusives. They loved it. I hope to go myself. Fuck american propaganda and fuck all the ignorant fools who so quickly and eagerly follow blindly as all sheep do. Daily mail is a rag to wipe our asses with, as is most of the alt-right who would condemn Fidel and of course the pro american rich business moguls who were forced out when Communism came to Cuba during their revolution. It's been hell for Cuba ever since.
I'm talking of those few million who live in the ignorant south where they are told what to think by men who would oppress them as they believe Fidel oppressed any in Cuba. Clearly you think Castro was some kind of monster. What do you know about him specifically that makes you not like him? As for the province I was generalizing Alberta where roughly 40% are of the same ideals of the ignorant south. As for all inclusives, those were young friends who had barely explored. My parents are extremely well traveled and don't use all inclusives.
Watching the USA for 30 years and seeing what they've done to the world and all 3rd world nations including enslaving Central and South America, I'd have done similar things to stamp out US interference. Political freedoms aren't important to me anyways. Civil rights are important and freedom of speech, I agree shouldn't be stomped on, but his paranoia and isolation were enhanced by the US and their attempts to overthrow/assassinate him. I'd be wary of any attempts to oust him. Allowing democratic elections is an invitation for the US to try and throw him out as well. And try, if not succeed, they would. They have been at the hands of most of the revolutions away from communism in the past 40 years. Why is so wrong to not want a society like the US and Canada where we are all slaves to a system of corporate master serfdom? Even in Gene Roddenberry's fictional universe, there were problems of paranoia in the military branch. Paranoid of Klingons or Romulans. Idyllic societies still want to regress hundreds of years despite the growth and prosperity. Imagine. Almost all of Cuba can read.
"Cuba made important advances under Castro in the progressive realization of some economic, social, and cultural rights such as education and healthcare. For example, UNESCO has concluded that there is near-universal literacy on the island and UNICEF has projected that the country is on track to achieve most of the Millennium Development Goals." - Human Rights Watch(NGO)
I took this: "I'm assuming you are referring to Cuban emigrants regarding the 4 million." to mean you side with the Cubans who've fled their home. So which is it? Do you feel Trudeau didn't speak for Canadians, or you don't like Castro, or you don't like either of them? And I'm curious, of all the articles to link to, what were you leaning to say? The Daily Mail, as I so hatefully proclaimed is right wing lowest common denominator type trash journalism. Were you pointing out how awful the right wing is at denouncing our PM, or suggesting some of this has merit?
+Zen Locust I say tuff if you are angered by it but all they did was report what had been said. Quote I'm talking of those few million who live in the ignorant south where they are told what to think by men who would oppress them Having said that anything else you say is irrelevant.
So you're completely close minded. I've checked your posts. You don't believe in climate change. You don't like Clinton. You link to fox news clips. So what does ignorant mean? Does it mean willfully stupid? Does it mean you just aren't educated? Does it mean you don't have or make the time to question anything? I don't use ignorant to call people stupid. I use it to say people don't know any better. Which is a hopeful statement from me suggesting people can change. If they would simply start questioning and finding good bias-free information. That crappy article uses extreme right wing examples to suggest nobody likes my prime minister when in fact he's sometimes revered around here. I'm not the one revering him. But like Rump, they just love him.
Why are you so sure you have all the answers? Why do you believe what you believe?
+Zen Locust and you don't think you are proving my point? It is funny but the more you prattle on the more you show you are everything you accuse me of. .As for Clinton who could like the dishonest old hag who also has shown she hasn't the greatest of health.
Mike, I'm certain in views because I've questioned them and gone to all kinds of sources to sort out what's fact and what's propaganda. I question everything and I'm better for it. I don't watch any news except Democracy Now! and I admit their leftist bias. But then, when you know what they are fighting against with FOX and NBC/CBC, it's balanced.
I can't say I know that much about Castro. I have read the general consensus is he jailed thousands of dissidents over the past 40 years. But I'm not much for the USA either. they've jailed quite a few dissidents themselves. Gitmo is a prime example. I only visited once between 1997 and 2007. Haven't been back since. I won't be back at all during this next administration either.
I freely admit, I'm intolerant of intolerance. It's a flaw. Racism is a piece of shit. Ethnocentrism is suppose to be gone in this Globalization economy. Or at least be thrust upon unsuspecting nations. USA USA USA! I'm frankly sick of it. I wave my Canadian Flag higher and wider than any murican just to show my disgust. The USA population are so blinded by their own propaganda of how great they are compared to the rest of the world, they didn't notice when the rest of the world stopped listening.
When you know what you get from those other sources, why bother. I use to enjoy Bill Maher, but he's gotten so militant in his views, I'm turned off. I like John Stewart, I like Stephen Colbert, but they have moved on. I really like John Oliver so if he's considered a news source, I can stand corrected. I really like https://www.theguardian.com and will occasionally entertain news from The Toronto Star. So my statement was not an absolute, but I assumed you were just talking about the big 4 of the USA. Which I think I was right.
So have you ever looked at a story on fox and then gone to nbc or any other news source knowing their political leanings just to see if you can find the middle truth at all? Have you ever doubted something you read at fox? knowing what I know about them, I can't read anything there and believe a word of it.
I guess that's the difference. I want to hash out the questions and have a discussion, people like Mike just want to troll and dismiss and avoid and hide in their comfort. You threaten that comfort, make them feel stupid which usually isn't our fault, and they get defensive and just stop operating within normal parameters. I feel like I tried. But I'm intolerant. Decided to block before I become a target. Judging by his posts, he's sent others to fight where he couldn't.
(The Wife is suitably annoyed with me and has told me to just "finish the damn post")
... Cuban emigrants regarding the 4 million." to mean you side with the Cubans who've fled...
Actually, I was genuinely unsure as to whom you were referring, and was seeking clarification. This also holds true for my question about which province you were referring to.
... of all the articles to link to ... The Daily Mail ...
I chose The Daily Mail for the simple reason that of all the sources I could find, they were the only ones that had comments open. Off the top of my head, I think I found three sources (CBC, Gaurdian, and Daily). In general, when linking, I try to choose a publisher that has allowed commenting on an article: firstly because I think it is a positive practice that should be rewarded, secondly because I usually find the comments more interesting than the article itself (so I am probably in the middle of reading the discussion when I choose to share the article).
So which is it? Do you feel Trudeau didn't speak for Canadians, or you don't like Castro, or you don't like either of them?
This is the meat of it! I am going to have to go with not liking either of them.
I will acknowledge that my knowledge of Castro is limited. Though my brief scan of Wikipedia strengthens my conviction that he was not the kind of leader that I feel should be in power anywhere. That he seized power in a violent coupe, and held that power through threat of violence, from 1952-2008 (56 years) puts him in the company of politicians like Mugabe in my eyes. That he used internment to silence disent, is a clear indicator of his personal view of his infallibility.
Therefore, I don't like Castro.
Similarily, Trudeau is a leader that I find deeply disturbing, and my original effort was to tarnish Trudeau's reputation by emphasizing his self-association with leaders that people find distasteful. I was attempting to emphasize to people that Trudeau is probably not the type of person they want him to be
Trudeau's behaviour does not offend me in particular, it is pretty standard for my very low expectations for politician behaviour (lies, deceptions, and cronyism). What I do find disturbing was the rock-star status he used to gain power, and how little critical thought was appliedto his campaign and people's belief in him (in spite of any evidence that may have been presented).
For this reason, I take every opportunity to remind people that Trudeau is, first and formost, a politician; which is to say an individual who seeks political power, or the power to make some people force other people to do your bidding. My attitude toward Trudeau, and his popularity can be summarized as:
(see attached image that I shared around during the election)
My default position is not to trust politicians, and remind people that politicians are not to be trusted.
as is most of the alt-right who would condemn Fidel
In general I attempt to politely ignore attacks such as this (in this case "Poisoning the Well") as a bit of impassioned flair, but in this case I feel the need to address it.
There appears to be a recent trend (6 months?) to label any viewpoint that is not in alignment with the speaker as "alt-right". I find this trend very disconcerting, not because it exists (it always has in forms such as Godwin's Law), but because it has become acceptable as evidence. It is indicative of a of the "left" leaning towards extreme forms of intolerance. This trend toward extreme intolerance on both sides seems to account for the "alt-ness" scale being used, leaving us with both and "alt-left" and "alt-right". If one looks at a Nolan Chart, I think the "alt-ness" is synonymous with "toughness", and is completely independant of whether people are left or right leaning.
With a nod to a recent meme I saw: "Both the left wing and the right wing are attached to the same extremist bird." ("Extremist" was my addition)
This leaves those with liberal outlooks in a tough position. Since extremists tend to hold a view that "if you aren't with us you're against us", we are often viewed as enemies of the alt-whichever. With the increase of alt-ness and intolerance, I'm starting to believe the world is a significantly less safe place to live in; one in which you can be jailed, or physically assaulted with impunity, for disagreeing with the belief du-jeure. I have personal experiences that hint at this from the Canadian election, and we see evidence of this in the US at protests and the follow up speeches by various political leaders (Clinton, Trump, and Obama).
What terrifies me most is the rest of the public's lack of outrage. Rather we find excuses being made to justify what amounts to little more than lynch mobs (perhaps even proto-"lynch mobs").
+Jefferey Cave I am interested in how you Canadians felt about Justin Trudeau's father. I had the feeling he wasn't overly bad but Justin I feel is a silly little prat that wouldn't of got anywhere near being PM if it hadn't been for his father.
+Mike Barton Unfortunately, Pierre predates me, so I can't really comment from direct experience, but I'll try to answer.
(You may want to pull a map out for this next part)
I do know that a person's opinion of him is highly dependant on where you are in the country.
Canada, like the US, is really a union of independant nations, and a really (geographically) large one at that. Politically, it is often expedient to divide the country into three parts: Central (ontario/quebec), West (BC->Manitoba), Atlantic (a half dozen, nearly, island provinces). I ordered those groups by population size, and it is worth noting that Central accounts for 62% of Canada's population, 30% goes to Western Canada, and Atlantic Canada is quickly forgotten or bullied.
There is a strong East/West divide primarily played out between Ontario (the political capital) and Alberta (the Oil Production Capital). Partially due to different economic drivers.
Pierre is remembered fondly in the East for raising the standard of living in the country and healing some of the Quebec/Ontario divide. In the West he is blamed for one of the worst recessions and periods of unemployment ever experienced.
I do completely agree, that Justin Trudeau has been using his father's fame and connections rather than standing on his own. I believe this attempt to associate himself with Castro is simply an extension of that. (My daddy knew someone famous)
+Jefferey Cave Thank you for that. I didn't really need a map as I have been there twice. Back in 78 when I struck the commonwealth games in Edmonton. I mainly saw the west that time and again in 89/90 when I spent some time in Aurora north of Toronto and then travelled by bus through to Vancouver for the trip home. I have always had a bit of an affinity for Canada and Canadians. I especially liked them when I was travelling around Europe. In actual fact Kicking Horse Pass in the Rockies is named after my great grandfather. That was useful when going through immigration the last time as I got the stamp very quickly when I mentioned that whereas I felt that I was going to get quite a grilling.
I'm not entirely convinced that the "all inclusives" would be representative of "man on the streets" Cuba.
As for the province I was generalizing Alberta where roughly 40% are of the same ideals of the ignorant south. As for all inclusives, those were young friends who had barely explored. My parents are extremely well traveled and don't use all inclusives.
Watching the USA for 30 years and seeing what they've done to the world and all 3rd world nations including enslaving Central and South America, I'd have done similar things to stamp out US interference. Political freedoms aren't important to me anyways. Civil rights are important and freedom of speech, I agree shouldn't be stomped on, but his paranoia and isolation were enhanced by the US and their attempts to overthrow/assassinate him. I'd be wary of any attempts to oust him. Allowing democratic elections is an invitation for the US to try and throw him out as well. And try, if not succeed, they would. They have been at the hands of most of the revolutions away from communism in the past 40 years.
Why is so wrong to not want a society like the US and Canada where we are all slaves to a system of corporate master serfdom? Even in Gene Roddenberry's fictional universe, there were problems of paranoia in the military branch. Paranoid of Klingons or Romulans. Idyllic societies still want to regress hundreds of years despite the growth and prosperity. Imagine. Almost all of Cuba can read.
"Cuba made important advances under Castro in the progressive realization of some economic, social, and cultural rights such as education and healthcare. For example, UNESCO has concluded that there is near-universal literacy on the island and UNICEF has projected that the country is on track to achieve most of the Millennium Development Goals." - Human Rights Watch(NGO)
What makes you think that? This was a criticism of Trudeau.
On the other hand, I don't even trust politicians that abide elections: I can't imagine Castro ranks better on my list.
to mean you side with the Cubans who've fled their home.
So which is it? Do you feel Trudeau didn't speak for Canadians, or you don't like Castro, or you don't like either of them?
And I'm curious, of all the articles to link to, what were you leaning to say? The Daily Mail, as I so hatefully proclaimed is right wing lowest common denominator type trash journalism. Were you pointing out how awful the right wing is at denouncing our PM, or suggesting some of this has merit?
I say tuff if you are angered by it but all they did was report what had been said.
Quote I'm talking of those few million who live in the ignorant south where they are told what to think by men who would oppress them
Having said that anything else you say is irrelevant.
So what does ignorant mean? Does it mean willfully stupid? Does it mean you just aren't educated? Does it mean you don't have or make the time to question anything? I don't use ignorant to call people stupid. I use it to say people don't know any better. Which is a hopeful statement from me suggesting people can change. If they would simply start questioning and finding good bias-free information. That crappy article uses extreme right wing examples to suggest nobody likes my prime minister when in fact he's sometimes revered around here. I'm not the one revering him. But like Rump, they just love him.
Why are you so sure you have all the answers? Why do you believe what you believe?
Like I said above anything else you have to say is irrelevant and is like water off a ducks back.
and you don't think you are proving my point?
It is funny but the more you prattle on the more you show you are everything you accuse me of.
.As for Clinton who could like the dishonest old hag who also has shown she hasn't the greatest of health.
I can't say I know that much about Castro. I have read the general consensus is he jailed thousands of dissidents over the past 40 years. But I'm not much for the USA either. they've jailed quite a few dissidents themselves. Gitmo is a prime example. I only visited once between 1997 and 2007. Haven't been back since. I won't be back at all during this next administration either.
I freely admit, I'm intolerant of intolerance. It's a flaw. Racism is a piece of shit. Ethnocentrism is suppose to be gone in this Globalization economy. Or at least be thrust upon unsuspecting nations. USA USA USA! I'm frankly sick of it. I wave my Canadian Flag higher and wider than any murican just to show my disgust. The USA population are so blinded by their own propaganda of how great they are compared to the rest of the world, they didn't notice when the rest of the world stopped listening.
Quote I don't watch any news except Democracy Now!
That really shows how broad minded you are. :((
You would like the guardian which is the last place to go for unbiased news.
Please carry on thinking as it might even work one day.
It seems like you think I spend my life on Fox. As I said carry on thinking as it might work one day.
(Stupid job getting in the way of fun stuff :)
Response still pending... but that I chose to use the word "hath" shows what fine form I'm in tonight ;)
... Cuban emigrants regarding the 4 million." to mean you side with the Cubans who've fled...
Actually, I was genuinely unsure as to whom you were referring, and was seeking clarification. This also holds true for my question about which province you were referring to.
... of all the articles to link to ... The Daily Mail ...
I chose The Daily Mail for the simple reason that of all the sources I could find, they were the only ones that had comments open. Off the top of my head, I think I found three sources (CBC, Gaurdian, and Daily). In general, when linking, I try to choose a publisher that has allowed commenting on an article: firstly because I think it is a positive practice that should be rewarded, secondly because I usually find the comments more interesting than the article itself (so I am probably in the middle of reading the discussion when I choose to share the article).
So which is it? Do you feel Trudeau didn't speak for Canadians, or you don't like Castro, or you don't like either of them?
This is the meat of it! I am going to have to go with not liking either of them.
I will acknowledge that my knowledge of Castro is limited. Though my brief scan of Wikipedia strengthens my conviction that he was not the kind of leader that I feel should be in power anywhere. That he seized power in a violent coupe, and held that power through threat of violence, from 1952-2008 (56 years) puts him in the company of politicians like Mugabe in my eyes. That he used internment to silence disent, is a clear indicator of his personal view of his infallibility.
Therefore, I don't like Castro.
Similarily, Trudeau is a leader that I find deeply disturbing, and my original effort was to tarnish Trudeau's reputation by emphasizing his self-association with leaders that people find distasteful. I was attempting to emphasize to people that Trudeau is probably not the type of person they want him to be
Trudeau's behaviour does not offend me in particular, it is pretty standard for my very low expectations for politician behaviour (lies, deceptions, and cronyism). What I do find disturbing was the rock-star status he used to gain power, and how little critical thought was appliedto his campaign and people's belief in him (in spite of any evidence that may have been presented).
For this reason, I take every opportunity to remind people that Trudeau is, first and formost, a politician; which is to say an individual who seeks political power, or the power to make some people force other people to do your bidding. My attitude toward Trudeau, and his popularity can be summarized as:
(see attached image that I shared around during the election)
My default position is not to trust politicians, and remind people that politicians are not to be trusted.
as is most of the alt-right who would condemn Fidel
In general I attempt to politely ignore attacks such as this (in this case "Poisoning the Well") as a bit of impassioned flair, but in this case I feel the need to address it.
There appears to be a recent trend (6 months?) to label any viewpoint that is not in alignment with the speaker as "alt-right". I find this trend very disconcerting, not because it exists (it always has in forms such as Godwin's Law), but because it has become acceptable as evidence. It is indicative of a of the "left" leaning towards extreme forms of intolerance. This trend toward extreme intolerance on both sides seems to account for the "alt-ness" scale being used, leaving us with both and "alt-left" and "alt-right". If one looks at a Nolan Chart, I think the "alt-ness" is synonymous with "toughness", and is completely independant of whether people are left or right leaning.
With a nod to a recent meme I saw: "Both the left wing and the right wing are attached to the same extremist bird." ("Extremist" was my addition)
This leaves those with liberal outlooks in a tough position. Since extremists tend to hold a view that "if you aren't with us you're against us", we are often viewed as enemies of the alt-whichever. With the increase of alt-ness and intolerance, I'm starting to believe the world is a significantly less safe place to live in; one in which you can be jailed, or physically assaulted with impunity, for disagreeing with the belief du-jeure. I have personal experiences that hint at this from the Canadian election, and we see evidence of this in the US at protests and the follow up speeches by various political leaders (Clinton, Trump, and Obama).
What terrifies me most is the rest of the public's lack of outrage. Rather we find excuses being made to justify what amounts to little more than lynch mobs (perhaps even proto-"lynch mobs").
I am interested in how you Canadians felt about Justin Trudeau's father. I had the feeling he wasn't overly bad but Justin I feel is a silly little prat that wouldn't of got anywhere near being PM if it hadn't been for his father.
(You may want to pull a map out for this next part)
I do know that a person's opinion of him is highly dependant on where you are in the country.
Canada, like the US, is really a union of independant nations, and a really (geographically) large one at that. Politically, it is often expedient to divide the country into three parts: Central (ontario/quebec), West (BC->Manitoba), Atlantic (a half dozen, nearly, island provinces). I ordered those groups by population size, and it is worth noting that Central accounts for 62% of Canada's population, 30% goes to Western Canada, and Atlantic Canada is quickly forgotten or bullied.
There is a strong East/West divide primarily played out between Ontario (the political capital) and Alberta (the Oil Production Capital). Partially due to different economic drivers.
Pierre is remembered fondly in the East for raising the standard of living in the country and healing some of the Quebec/Ontario divide. In the West he is blamed for one of the worst recessions and periods of unemployment ever experienced.
I do completely agree, that Justin Trudeau has been using his father's fame and connections rather than standing on his own. I believe this attempt to associate himself with Castro is simply an extension of that. (My daddy knew someone famous)
Thank you for that.
I didn't really need a map as I have been there twice. Back in 78 when I struck the commonwealth games in Edmonton. I mainly saw the west that time and again in 89/90 when I spent some time in Aurora north of Toronto and then travelled by bus through to Vancouver for the trip home.
I have always had a bit of an affinity for Canada and Canadians. I especially liked them when I was travelling around Europe.
In actual fact Kicking Horse Pass in the Rockies is named after my great grandfather.
That was useful when going through immigration the last time as I got the stamp very quickly when I mentioned that whereas I felt that I was going to get quite a grilling.